November 19, 2008
Breaking - Royals Trade For Coco Crisp
UPDATE 2: SI.com confirms the deal.
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Whew... I'm trying to keep up here...
This morning on WHB-810, Brian McRae (now with mlb.com) is reporting that the Royals have shipped middle reliever Ramon Ramirez to the Boston Red Sox for Coco Crisp.
Crisp hit .283/.344/.407 for the Sox last year while sharing time in CF with Jacoby Ellsbury. For his career, Crisp is a .280/.331/.409 hitter. With 124 career steals and a 73% success rate, he's the speed guy that GMDM has clearly coveted for some time. The important question to ask is does this solve the OBP issue? The answer is: It helps.
(This is my first time trying to insert an image in the new blogging software. I hope it works.)
Crisp basicall lives around the league average in OBP, which is something the Royals can definitely use. Last year, he walked around 8% of the time and whiffed close to 16% of his plate appearances.
Crisp will make $5.75 million in '09 and the team holds an $8 million option for '10.
Does this make the Teahen deal more likely, or what? I think that's the next move, especially considering GMDM hasn't come out and called the rumors, "A lie!" To me, the Teahen deal has to happen now because Crisp strikes me as a Teahen clone with less power and a little more speed. Bear with me for a moment...
Look at the Crisp OBP numbers again. Teahen has lived in that "league average" neighborhood for some time, although he fell off the pace last summer. Crisp, like Teahen, is what he is. That means, a steady, league average player that you don't have to worry about... But don't expect anything special. Now what makes this deal a good one is if GMDM can spin Teahen to the Cubs for Mike Fontenot. Then your lineup looks like this:
C - Olivo
1B - Jacobs/Shealy
2B - Fontenot
3B - Gordon
SS - Aviles
LF - DeJesus
CF - Crisp
RF - Guillen
DH - Butler
The dominoes are falling.
Discussion
37 Comments on "Breaking - Royals Trade For Coco Crisp"
#1
Posted by Jon, November 19, 2008 9:56 AM
Images!! Great breakdown. I think this is a trade that will work well for both teams. I think it is almost a guarantee now for Rosa to start the season in the pen. I am sad to see Ramirez go because he was a steady hand in the bullpen last year, but on the bright side, the Royals basically traded De la Rosa for a year of Ram Ram and 2 years of Coco. That seems to be a pretty decent deal. (Coco also has a little "fight" in him, so that is a plus!)
I also think trading Teahen/DeJesus is the logical next step. The real question is would you rather have Fontenot/Dejesus or Cano/Teahen? I would prefer the latter.
#2
Posted by Jack, November 19, 2008 10:01 AM
"The dominoes are falling". Exactly. I had a feeling Moore would make trade after trade this offseason and not rely on FA's picking KC. So far, a lot to be discussed, and, I don't think the moving and shaking is anywhere near over.
This trade should hopefully bring more logical analysis, as many Royals fans thought Ramirez could move to closer while Soria moved into the rotation. Well, that idea is now gone. I know the Jacobs analysis raged for weeks, but, did anyone care that Nunez was gone? This trade on the other hand, included someone whom many deemed reliable enough to be a closer. Should be interesting to see the reaction.
#3
Posted by Craig Brown in reply to comment from Jack, November 19, 2008 10:09 AM
Jack - Good point on RamRam... I neglected to talk about him, but I wanted to get a Crisp analysis up ASAP...
GMDM clearly sees the bullpen as a bargaining chip to a better overall ballclub. In two deals this winter, he's moved two guys who were in the top four in team relief appearances.
#4
Posted by Jon, November 19, 2008 10:21 AM
Relief pitchers are relief pitchers for a reason. The majority of them are pitchers who could not hack it as starters. If you can trade a bullpen piece, which for the most part is a completely replaceable piece, of a starting position player who is an upgrade over your existing pieces, then you must do the deal!! The Royals minors is littered with pitchers who will be bullpen pitchers.
#5
Posted by Karte, November 19, 2008 10:26 AM
I think this is a good trade for KC. GMDM traded a very good reliever (which he can apparently produce at will) for a true CF.
Next moves? I am thinking Teahen for Fontenot sounds very good now. Mitch Maier becomes the 4th OF - he looks like Teahen to me anyway.
Gathright, Gload, and German are one too many "G" men. One of them gets traded. My guess is German.
#6
Posted by Jack, November 19, 2008 10:28 AM
Craig- No problem in not talking about RamRam ramifications (yay alliteration!!), I'm sure it will be thoroughly discussed.
I'm for the Crisp deal. I think it solves the leadoff problem, outfield D, and re-arranges the lineup to a point that makes sense. Yet, I don't think Moore is done.
#7
Posted by Ryne Crabb, November 19, 2008 10:31 AM
Why wouldn't the Royals, and its fan base, want to trade the overpaid and underproducing Jose Guillen instead of Teahen?
#8
Posted by Jack, November 19, 2008 10:41 AM
I speak for myself, but, I think most Royals fans want to get rid of Guillen. Only problem being, who the hell wants to pay him $24M in the next two years???
And, Ryne Sandberg might be the worst HOF inductee of all time.
#9
Posted by kcghost, November 19, 2008 11:39 AM
Interesting trade. I guess the Royals were more desperate to get DDJ out of CF than I thought. RamRam was certainly productive last year and we will miss that.
Assuming GMDM can replace Nunez and Ramirez this trade should make the team a little better. By adding an OFer it means one must go. I really don't care if it is Teahen or DDJ provided we improve the club. Well in a dream world it would be Guillen but that isn't happening.
Ryne Sandberg worst HoF inductee ever?? What is your measuring stick because it sure isn't baseball performance. Amongst the 17 HoF 2B's Sandberg ranks right in the middle of them in career win shares. Ryne may not be the greatest HoFer, but he belongs, and is vastly superior to guys like Tommy McCarthy, George Kelly, and Fred Lindstrom.
#10
Posted by CSL, November 19, 2008 11:46 AM
They should be trying to trade DeJesus rather than Teahen.
Teahen, although a little expensive, has a role on this team. Since he can play five positions, he is worth the spot on the team. DeJesus can only play two postions and will bring back more of a return. I still have to wonder about Atlanta and Philadelphia's interest in DeJesus. If Burrell leaves Philadelphia, they will need someone in left. Jason Donald is blocked and Kansas City could use a good, young, cheap shortstop and Aviles can move over to second. Atlanta has an opening in left as well and may be willing to trade Escobar.
I'd feel much better if they would abtain a shortstop over a second baseman. Aviles' natural position is second.
#11
Posted by Jack, November 19, 2008 12:17 PM
KCGhost- Look at the stats!! Sandberg was a good player, but HOF, please!!! No way he was a HOF.
#12
Posted by Jonathan, November 19, 2008 12:17 PM
I like Coco in our line-up because of his plus glove and the fact that we have a ton of flexibility now where DDJ can drop a bit in the order and help us some more, whether it's 2/3 or 5/6. We definitely have too many OF now though, and IMO our bullpen is very weak. Soria and Mahay are the only two I trust, and Tejeda looks to be an OK reclamation project so far, but other than that... Rosa? Lowery looked terrible in September... But I guess going FA shopping for a RP is infinitely better than a bidding war for an OF.
#13
Posted by Jack, November 19, 2008 12:23 PM
After looking at Sanberg's stats, gee, Mark Teahen is on pace to become a HOF. Wait, the Royals don't have WGN to promote themselves. Damn. That Sandberg had a helluve smile on WGN as he batted in those 80 ribbies!! Hey, Cooperstown, overrated is coming in!!!
#14
Posted by Jack, November 19, 2008 12:35 PM
KCGhost- Can we agree that those you mentioned, along with Sandberg, have no place in the HOF?
#15
Posted by RoyalsManNC, November 19, 2008 12:49 PM
Jack,
I think your looking for the Cubs blog. None of us honestly care about Ryne Sandberg! Please lets get back on the Royals (who are highly under promoted as it is.) Giving the Cubs more of our time too much.
Plus, we could pick dozens of players inducted that should not be there. Let's leave that out of this blog!
Go Royals!
Last time I was in Boston I met Crisp. I can't say I was impressed. I didn't really try to talk to him; but he was short and rude to those around him. I actually kind of see him as another Guillen-Lite!!!
#16
Posted by %intheUK, November 19, 2008 2:51 PM
This is a good trade,no doubt about that!
Lest we should remember this is actually the third quality bullpen member we have given up in trades over the last few months with as yet no replacements in that field.
Along with Nunez & Ram Ram,Horatio Ramirez also was shipped out to Chicago so 2 if not 3 big gaps to fill,that task should not be underestimated!
#17
Posted by Brandt, November 19, 2008 3:13 PM
I really like this trade. Crisp gives us a good leadoff hitter and a great defensive CF. I hope the Royals are able to trade Teahen and Buck for a middle infielder and pitcher now. My lineup as of now would be.
1. Crisp CF
2. Aviles SS
3. DeJesus LF (I would bat him here because he has the ability to get on base and bring some pop when men are on base. No one else has proven able to man the 3 hole. )
4. Guillen RF
5. Jacobs 1B
6. Butler DH (I know most would not like Butler and Gordon so low in the lineup, but they have not proven anything in the majors yet. They should continue to bat low until they learn to hit Major League pitching consistently.)
7. Gordon 3B
8. Olivo C
9. Callaspo 2B
#18
Posted by kevin, November 19, 2008 3:20 PM
Horatio Ramirez is a free agent right now. Perhaps we can bring him to camp and back into the team.
#19
Posted by Grantastica, November 19, 2008 3:24 PM
Dooooh-nuts...Dooooh-nuts...Dooooh-nuts.
Good Swap here Dayton. Crisp was actaully about the only true CF'er that the Royals could have entertained coming to the K next year and you went out and brought him to town.
I told my buddy two weeks ago that I had a gut feeling Crisp would be in Royal Blue next year. I was only half right becuase I said in order to make that happen, Buck and either Teahen or Shealy would be moved to Bean Town and we'd get Lugo and Crisp.
So who is Dayton's Reclamation project for 09's bullpen? Who down on the farm has a shot at making the staff as a reliver out of Spring Training? Would Lumsden and his horrible two years starting in Omaha be a good candidate to convert to reliever?
Who goes next? We all know that GMDM isn't even close to done. Teahen or DDJ? And for who? Is Maier a competent 4th OF'er?
If Guillen gets hot at the right time do you all suspect ANY team would want him down the stretch?
I'd take a couple of relievers for him right now!
I was reading a post by either Craig or Clark...just after the new look was implimented, and it said to save your bookmarks...My bookmark still says Kauffman Confidential. That's how long I've been reading your blogs guys! I used to post under the name Grantwg505 but having to re-register, I now use my new moniker.
#20
Posted by Grantastica, November 19, 2008 3:25 PM
Dooooh-nuts...Dooooh-nuts...Dooooh-nuts.
Good Swap here Dayton. Crisp was actaully about the only true CF'er that the Royals could have entertained coming to the K next year and you went out and brought him to town.
I told my buddy two weeks ago that I had a gut feeling Crisp would be in Royal Blue next year. I was only half right becuase I said in order to make that happen, Buck and either Teahen or Shealy would be moved to Bean Town and we'd get Lugo and Crisp.
So who is Dayton's Reclamation project for 09's bullpen? Who down on the farm has a shot at making the staff as a reliver out of Spring Training? Would Lumsden and his horrible two years starting in Omaha be a good candidate to convert to reliever?
Who goes next? We all know that GMDM isn't even close to done. Teahen or DDJ? And for who? Is Maier a competent 4th OF'er?
If Guillen gets hot at the right time do you all suspect ANY team would want him down the stretch?
I'd take a couple of relievers for him right now!
I was reading a post by either Craig or Clark...just after the new look was implimented, and it said to save your bookmarks...My bookmark still says Kauffman Confidential. That's how long I've been reading your blogs guys! I used to post under the name Grantwg505 but having to re-register, I now use my new moniker.
#21
Posted by Brandt, November 19, 2008 3:26 PM
I also would like a trade like Teahen and DeJesus for Fontenot and Marshall or Hill. The Royals would then have their 2B and a lefty starter for the rotation. They could then go after a power corner outfielder. Depending on how much money we have, we could get Rivera for a lower cost or go after bigger names such as Burrell, Ibanez, or Abreu for LF. The Royals could also go after relievers in free agency. My dream roster with a trade like this would be.
1. Crisp CF
2. Aviles SS
3. Burrell LF
4. Jacobs 1B
5. Guillen RF
6. Gordon 3B
7. Butler DH
8. Fontenot 2B
9. Olivo C
Rotation
1. Greinke
2. Meche
3. Davies
4. Marshall
5. Hochevar
#23
Posted by Jon, November 19, 2008 3:43 PM
Additions:
Coco Crisp: 13.1 VORP in '08 (409 PA)
Mike Jacobs: 17.1 (519 PA)
Losses:
Leo Nunez: 12.1 VORP in '08 (48.3 IP)
Ramon Ramirez: 23.1 (71.7 IP)
The best VORP move the Royals could make would be to trade Teahen for a 2b/SS and DFA Tony Pena. If the Royals and Cubs swapped Teahen and Fontenot and the Royals DFA'd TPJ, that would be a net pickup of 50.3 runs (or 5 wins).
Right now the 25 man looks something like this:
1. Meche
2. Greinke
3. Davies
4. Hochevar
5. Bannister
6. Soria
7. Mahay
8. Tejada
9. Bale
10. Rosa
11. Lowrey or Musser
12. Gobble
13. Buck
14. Olivo
15. Jacobs
16. Butler
17. Callaspo
18. Aviles
19. Pena or Gload
20. Gordon
21. Teahen
22. Dejesus
23. Crisp
24. Guillen
25. Shealy
Does everyone see the dilema GMDM is going to run into? Who do you keep; TPJ or Gload?
Trading Teahen for a middle infielder allows the Royals to drop Pena and keep Gload on the 25 man roster as the 24th or 25th man depending on the bullpen situation.
#24
Posted by Craig Brown in reply to comment from Grantastica, November 19, 2008 3:56 PM
Kauffman Confidential? You are an old-timer! Thanks for sticking with us. And good to know you changed your comment handle. Clark and I were worried we lost a lot of quality commenters in the last switch... Hopefully, most of them just changed their name like you.
#25
Posted by Craig Brown in reply to comment from Jon, November 19, 2008 4:00 PM
Nice breakdown.
I would take Gload over TPJ, but it's all dependent on how the rest of the roster breaks down. If it's the other 24 guys you listed, I'd lean to TPJ because you don't have a backup middle infielder but you have Teahen, Shealy and Butler who can all play at 1B.
That's why I'm pulling for a new 2B so you can dump both Gload and TPJ and keep Callaspo as a backup/spot starter.
#26
Posted by vinnie, November 19, 2008 4:15 PM
what would the royals want from the yankees for Dejesus?
kennedy veras?
#27
Posted by KC at the Bat, November 19, 2008 4:37 PM
The answer to this dilemma is to turn TPJ into a 2.3 ERA reliever that can also back up the middle IF. Later, GMDM can flip him for something useful!
I think RamRam was at top value; good time to trade him.
#28
Posted by Dan S., November 19, 2008 4:46 PM
Vinnie,How about Cano?
Jon, what about German and Gathright on your list. Gone?
#29
Posted by Dan S., November 19, 2008 4:51 PM
Vinnie,How about Cano?
Jon, what about German and Gathright on your list. Gone?
#30
Posted by Glenn, November 19, 2008 5:07 PM
I thought they killed the donuts promotion? Maybe I'm wrong. Great trade by the way.
#31
Posted by Jon in reply to comment from Dan S., November 19, 2008 5:21 PM
I believe Gathright has an option left se he can go back to AAA. I would prefer to keep German of TPJ due to his stick, but GMDM seems to have an affinity for TPJ.
As for what it would take for the Yankees to get DDJ, I would have to think Cano would have to be included.
#32
Posted by greg schaum, November 19, 2008 7:02 PM
Ok-
the post up 3 or 4...no way Musser and Bale,Mahay, Gobble make the club...that is 4 relievers that are lefties....more likey a youngster that can get ground balls and concentrate on 2 pitches like Rosa and Pimentel make the club
Don't count out Yabuta
#33
Posted by Jon in reply to comment from greg schaum, November 19, 2008 9:00 PM
You can't really count Mahay as a lefty. Look at his splits:
RH: 0.250/0.327/0.351
LH: 0.255/0.327/0.391
He was just as effective, and actually more so, against righties.
I personally feel the breakdown would be as follows (given the 40 man roster as of today):
Closer: Obvious
Set up: Mahay (not your typical lefty)
LOOGY: Gobble (L)
Middle/Short: Rosa (R)
Long Relief: Tejada (R) & Bale (L)
Short Relief: Lowrey (R) or Musser (L) (This will be a revolving door all season long depending on injury and who is getting, or more realistically, not getting the job done)
#34
Posted by CSL, November 20, 2008 9:19 AM
If Kansas City were to trade DeJesus to the Yankees, I'd certainly expect Kennedy. Kennedy is a young, cheap, good pitcher you can't pass up if you have the oppurtunity.
Cano is coming off a season he only managed a .305 OBP. I can deal without that.
I don't know why the Yankees would trade for another outfielder though: Matsui, Damon, Gardner, Cabrera & Nady.
#35
Posted by Preston, November 20, 2008 8:39 PM
I think Craig got hosed tonight on 610. That was bush league running you off so quick.
#36
Posted by Craig Brown, November 20, 2008 8:59 PM
No biggie Preston... Greg just wanted me to call in and I have a tendency to go on a bit and he needed to get an early break. It's easier to be in the studio where you can see the clock.
Besides, I had a car full of dancers I just picked up from practice. I don't think they could have kept quiet for much longer.
#37
Posted by greg schaum in reply to comment from Preston, November 20, 2008 9:27 PM
sorry preston...i apologize
i love having craig on...but i was truly limited to time since craig was just a call in...i think he was on longer than most call ins...the podcast is up tomorrow...crag, has been a co-host in the past and he will be a co-host again
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