Comments on: 40 Man Roster Review – Sean O’Sullivan

By: Unclejesse

Unclejesse — Fri, 22 Jun 2012 13:43:53 +0000

Bye SOS, hope things work out better for you in Toronto then they did in KC. I can only hope that trading SOS for money means that we are getting ready to sign a pitcher for a little more than they might be worth and not just to line the pockets of the top brass.

By: Johnson

Johnson — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 23:22:07 +0000

SOS is done. He was always a bigger player in stature and therefore somewhat dominated at lower levels, but he does not have the stuff nor the work ethic to overcome major league hitters. Why did we offer him a contract this year?

By: jim fetterolf

jim fetterolf — Sun, 01 Jan 2012 23:53:41 +0000

“that analysis might make less sense when applied to these two players because it was not the Royals who broke them in the first place.”

Both players were from long-toss friendly organizations and neither were particularly broken when acquired. Both SOS and Maz have shown flashes of upside. We’ll see if the new regime helps or if GMDM just got a couple of busts in a trade of mediocre players. I just found it worth noting that neither met expectations last year, nor did any of our AA and above pitchers, even Duffy hardly dominant in Omaha before being called up to be wildly inconsistent with the big club. Might just be a coincidence, if so our pitching horizon sorta sucks.

By: Ted

Ted — Sun, 01 Jan 2012 16:55:30 +0000

Jim: I guess I feel it might be useful because so much of their development (SOS and Mazzaro) was done outside the Royals organization and outside the context you are discussing. Not certain whether a return to long toss will help them improve, maybe it will, but my point is rather bland: assuming you and others are correct and that the old training routine contributed to several pitchers developing into mediocre players, that analysis might make less sense when applied to these two players because it was not the Royals who broke them in the first place.

By: Spencer Montgomery

Spencer Montgomery — Sun, 01 Jan 2012 00:59:10 +0000

I just made a new article about the starting rotation for next year… Check it out at thegreatdebate1.wordpress.com

By: jim fetterolf

jim fetterolf — Sun, 01 Jan 2012 00:33:54 +0000

Not sure it’s possible or useful to isolate the two from an overall context that has had Hoch fall below his potential and our army of prospect arms regress. Quite possible that SOS and Mazzaro are what they are, busts, and quite possible so many of our top prospects were incorrectly evaluated. Also possible that restrictive, old school training contributes to some or all of the disappointments. We’ll see under the new regime.

By: Ted

Ted — Sat, 31 Dec 2011 21:46:22 +0000

Jim: I was referring to SOS and Mazzaro, no one else. SOS in particular looked like a bust when KC acquired him, though I have no idea whether he was using a long toss program before his time in KC.

By: jim fetterolf

jim fetterolf — Sat, 31 Dec 2011 19:38:02 +0000

Here is a link from pine tar with a little discussion with Greg Schaum on long-toss:

http://www.pinetarpress.com/?p=11301

By: jim fetterolf

jim fetterolf — Sat, 31 Dec 2011 05:18:35 +0000

“Not certain why so many here are thinking that a new pitching coach/pitching philosophy will make a difference with them.”

Because long-toss and program training is what made some of them hot prospects in the first place, Hochevar, Montgomery, and Odorizzi three obvious ones. The new philosophy will bring the Royals in line with about half the other teams, including San Francisco, Oakland, Anaheim, Arizona, and Texas. Probably Tampa, although I haven’t heard that specifically. Pitchers prevented from continuing advanced training tend to lose command, control, and velocity. A couple of articles on the subject:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1189170/1/index.htm

http://www.pinetarpress.com/?p=7462

The second is by pine tar press’ Greg Schaum, whom I have discussed this with for awhile. Mike Engel at Kings of Kaufman also has been a coach and instructor in long-toss.

By: Ted

Ted — Sat, 31 Dec 2011 04:34:04 +0000

Clark: this was going through my mind too…SOS and Mazzaro looked like bused prospects before KC traded for them. Not certain why so many here are thinking that a new pitching coach/pitching philosophy will make a difference with them.

And Scott: which pitchers eventually figured thing out at the ML level after struggling in the minors? Because SOS was not very good in the high minors, with peripherals essentially the same as his ML numbers.